My own personal blog. UNISON NEC member for Housing Associations & Charities, HA Convenor, London Regional Council Officer & Chair of its Labour Link Committee.
Newham Cllr for West Ham Ward, Vice Chair of Local Authority Pension Fund Forum, Pension trustee, Housing & Safety Practitioner.
Centre left and proud member of Labour movement family. Strictly no trolls please.
Promoted by Luke Place on behalf of J.Gray, Newham Labour Group, St Luke’s Community Centre, E16 1HS.
Saturday, October 03, 2009
SPEW loves this blog & 'fesses' up to selling out members
Comrade Mercader has posted this guest video on a recent meeting of London SPEW members. This meeting appears to have been held to celebrate John’s Labour blog and also contains some sort of amazing Ultra Left “show trial” confession.
34 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I'm struggling to find the humour by comrade Mercader or whatever his name is.
What I do find amusing is the amount of Unison members who are currently resigning and joining Unite because they are fed up to the back teeth of Unisons bureaucratic nature and the amount of managers that are members who are always on the other side of the desk during disciplinaries.
rubbish anon members will leave in droves by the prospect of constant strikes, strikes and strikes by those who just want pointless political conflicit to further the "revolution".
This video is a shocking attempt to smear a Socialist Party member by using computer trickery to make him look ridiculous and make a mockery of his party.
Didnt say Unite are more militant. Didnt say they were leaving because of strikes. They are leaving because "are fed up to the back teeth of Unisons bureaucratic nature and the amount of managers that are members who are always on the other side of the desk during disciplinaries."
I put the quote in for those who lack understanding.
You have your bitch about invisible 'Trots'. there are bigger problems to sort out than childish obsessions
Is that the best the right-wing can do? a stupid video attempting smear opponents. It's very noticable that while the 4 who are being witch-hunted have defended their records and refuted all charges made against them, the right-wingers can't come with a single justification for their actions. Come on John (or should i say comrade mercader) tell us what you really think, justify the actions agianst the 4 activivsts or is it just a case of the right-wingers wanting those nasty trots out by hook or by crook?. And no hiding behind that "internal union matter" rubbish this time. The people being chrged with so called offenses have been brave enough to publicly air their views on the matter and fight their corner. So stop being a coward and do the same. Put up or shut up.
Hi Paul So the video is not true? That is very naughty Comrade Mercader! Tut, tut – but he is such a card at times. Anyway – I will not comment on the stuff that “the gang of 4” were found guilty of by an exhaustive process overseen by democratically elected lay UNISON activists since there is an appeal pending. I have my views but I don’t think it is right to comment on internal UNISON discipline matters. However, what I will criticise is what I honestly believe to be unforgivable and appalling public attacks on the union by some of the “4” and their so-called “supporters”. Many of which are not even UNISON members. How dare the President of another union speak at public meeting about internal UNISON issues (no personal capacity mentioned). No tiny sect of members has the right to try and besmirch the reputation of the union in the way that has been done because they happen to disagree with the way they have been treated. What on earth are they in the union for if they do not believe in putting loyalty to the union first and collective responsibility? The union is bigger and better than all of us. Dignified protest and reasoned argument is one thing. Name calling UNISON “witch hunters...playground... bullies... threatening...hypocrisy...Stalinists” and in letters to the press, leaflets, websites and videos involving non members is simply unforgiveable. In the same way that we expect members who may be opposed to strike action not to scab on the picket line, I would expect union members who think that discipline action against them (for whatever reason) is wrong - not attack to publically the union. Thankfully, due mostly to the crass madcap stupidity of the “campaign” it has not harmed the union that much. But what on earth are they taking UNISON to court to try and declare themselves as “cultists” entilited to legal protection from so called “discrimination” and doing the BNP work for them? Who would be the biggest gainers from such insanity if you were successful? BNP/NF Fascists and racists who would immediately claim similar protection for their “philosophical views”. I note that “the line” has now apparently changed and that the SPEW Ministry of Truth have now decided that all this is now not due to Labour Party pressure but down to union Stalinism? Finally although I don’t know who you are I would suggest that you actually look and listen to the nonsense being put out about by some of the 4 and it is just cant and complete breathtaking hypocrisy of you to complain about this video when a main propagandist thinks he is perfectly entitled to accuse full time officers and other UNSION branch secretaries of dirty deals and selling out members etc as well as anyone who happens to disagree with him of being “cowards”, "smear"-ers and “traitors”.
So you can't comment on whether the charges made against the members or are true or not. No surprise their. Like i said by hook or by crook eh, we can't have them showing up what a crap record you right wingers have when it comes to defending members can we now. But the crux of your arguement seems to be that when you have a greivance against an organisation you should never go public about it. Does that apply to workers who feel discrinated against by employers to?. As for members of other unions defending the activists, well thats called class solidarity. The business of all working class organisations, specially one as important as UNISON, is the business of the class as a whole. Remember an injury to one is an injury to all. And don't you think it cheapens the anti-racist cause just a wee bit when burearucrats use to carry out a political withchhunt which they know, you know and i know has absolutly nothing to with racism what so ever. If the unions leadership hadn't found some stooge, or idiot it must be one of the two, to stand up and say they found the 3 wise monkeys proverb racist then this case needn't have happened. So again the blame lays squarly at the feet on the unions (mis)leadership there. As for the other trumped up charge of "questioning the integrity of the standing orders committee" well UNISON is supposed a democratic organisation, surely you can question the integrity of whatever body you like. If we apply these satndards to the world outside of the union then Labour party members obviously belive that in a democratic society you should never question the integrity of the government, whoever it is at any given time. As far the stuff about the Labour Party/Stalinists goes your both just two sides of the coin. It's a bit rich you having a go at people about name calling i could trawl throught this blog and fing countless examples of you doing the same thing. The story about the Branch Sec selling out members is just a fact, thats why her members felt they had to go to Kaz, he has a proven track record always fighting for his members. She, on the other hand, is useless. We all know that the whole thing has come about because of fear. You're all scared because the arguements of the Socialist Party are gradually beginning to gain ground within the union. That means alot of overpayed and unelected people could soon be out of the job.
Except i have answered the points John made in his reply, you obviously don't have leg to stand on. You've just done the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying lalalalala. Though thats all LP (im assuming you are one, you certainly argue like one) members are good fro nowadays.
I'm extremely concerned that Paul is alleging the Chair of the National Black Members Committee (who made the first complaint at conference)is a stooge or an idiot. If anyone thinks Bev Miller is a stooge or an idiot they'd better be prepared to say it to her face. But worse than that, to make such an allegation is not just an insult to the democratically-elected spokesperson of UNISON's black members but also to those members themselves.
Paul, If it's a matter of class solidarity then what the f do the Heinz 157-varities of Trot-loon parties think they are contributing to class solidarity with their idiotic splits, infighting and separate parties? Bev
Yasmin, sorry but if you claim that their was any racist intent behind the use of the 3 wise monkey's proverb the you're either doing it purely for politcal reasons, in which case your a Labour Party stooge. Or you could genuinely belive that the proverb is racist in which your an idiot. I just don't belive that anyone involved in making the allegations had never heard of the proverb before and actually thought the image depicted the chair of the SOC. Specialliy since it has been used in UNISON campaigning material with no action taken against those who included it. And no im not saying that the people who elected him are idiots, we all know thats just a straw man. Again if we take that arguement and apply to the life outside of the union then UNISON right-wingers have some pretty strange ideas about what is and isn't acceptable in a democracy. For example, I've heard plenty of people saying that George Bush is an idiot but i wouldn't use that to suggest they think that all the people that voted for him are idiots, take your arguement to it's logical conclusion you obviously would.
Hi Paul You haven’t actually answered my point about why SPEW is doing the BNP dirty work over this employment tribunal case? There are more BNP members of trade unions than all the tiny Ultra sects put together so the real “winners” if this utterly misconceived application was to succeed would be the BNP et al who would claim legal protection due to their belief in National Socialism! Who on earth was the brains behind that one? Why doesn’t any of you lot respond and address this point?
Look - I don’t know about you but I was brought up to never repeat to never publically attack the union nor attack other unions. That is doing the work of the employers.
Paul, please note that a "trade u-n-i-o-n" is not the same thing as an employer. You appear not to know the difference between them.
Finally Paul one person’s fact is another person’s fiction. By all means express your views (except don’t attack the union) but don’t be hypocritical or holier than though about it.
I was brought up in a rough and tumble political tradition so I don’t mind being at the receiving end of a bit of verbal stick. But please - the hypocrisy of those who are happy to dish it out then have screaming fits when they get anything back is just childish and even moronic.
Why do you think that communicatie with such biblical and religious fundament certainty is valid? Don’t you think this is a sign? How on earth can you honestly think that us on the sensible left think of you lot as being any sort whatsoever of a threat?
Hi anon 7.48 Not sure about the getter stronger bit but you have to defend the union against such complete nonsense. It is also very soothing and relaxing after being out on the knocker canvassing for Labour and counting up all those promises for next year.
Good point Yasmin –
Shamefully “Paul” seems to think that black unison activists are just thick or too ignorant to have ever previously heard of the 3 monkeys.
I so wish that the appeal was over so I could express my views on this subject properly? (I will of course ask their permission beforehand)
No John the point i made was that i don't think that there's antone out therewho's never heard of the 3wise monkey's. I think your intentionally trying to distort what I said. And i would say that the union is helping the BNP attacking the 4 activists on trumped up charges rather than fighting racism where it actually exists. Besides if the outcome of the case goes in favour of the Socialist Party members it won't set a precedent that protects BNP members as if they took the union to an ET they would have to prove that thier beliefs don't cause them to discriminate against others. Obviously we would all rather that they did not have have to resort to legal action but unfortunatly they'll get a better hearing in an ET than they would from the unions internal disciplinary structures. And unforunatly in this case the union is behaving like the worst employers do. The idea that it is the 4 victimised activists do that are doing the employers for tham by defending themselves is just ludicrous, I know here in Greenwich the council are rubbing there hands with glee at the thought of Kaz going and everyone leaving the branch. Kaz has already had to persuade many members not to leave the union over the whole affair. Also you haven't told me why it's ok for the retired members section to use the proverb or for the UNISON national womens conference to saction it's use but not the left. Finally you're not on the "sensible left" you're right-wing, you back a party with almost identical politics to the Tories. And if the SP isn't a threat then why are the union bothering to hound out activists belonging to it?.
"Finally Paul one person’s fact is another person’s fiction. By all means express your views (except don’t attack the union) but don’t be hypocritical or holier than though about it."
John, oh how I laughed and laughed when I read that.
Hi Paul That is not what you actual said – you said that those making allegations had not heard of the 3 monkeys??? You don’t really “get it” about the consequences of the ET either do you? To win it they will have to prove that Trotskyism is a religious/philosophical cult and should be protected under the religious discrimination legislation (they would have to then “prove” they were actually discriminated). If trots are a philosophical cult then the Nazi and racists will also be claim the same protection. It would be impossible to expel Nazi from membership or even stop them being union stewards or officers. This ET is just complete and utter selfish ill thought out madness. If the branch secretary is going about telling his members how ‘orrible the union is then it is hardly surprising that some people are leave? Stop slagging off the union and stop digging this hole.
I’ve already told you I will not respond to the case since there is an appeal pending. But any experienced steward will know that know the differences and if you don’t then you ought to get out more and represent members.
With regards to the Labour Party and Tories check out my post last night on my old online muckers Andy and Sue. Anyway the SPEW line on this has changed? Hasn’t the CC told you what to think yet?
No John, I didnt claim that the people making the allegations had heard of the 3 wise monkeys and here's a quote cut and pasted from one of my entries with added emphasis just so that you understand: " I just DON'T BELIVE that anyone involved in making the allegations HAD NEVER HEARD OF THE PROVERB before and actually thought the image depicted the chair of the SOC". What I am saying though is that anyone who thinks that the proverb is racist is an idiot or an LP stooge. And again your wrong about the ET, willfully so i suspect, as the law that the SP members are charging the union of breaking has a provision in it that allows employers to sack people for disciminatory practices in the work place. To beat the union in an ET the BNP would have to prove that they don't discriminate aginst minorities, homosexuals and women, which they wouldn't be able to do as the union could simply use the BNP's own constitution as evidence if any such case was to arise. Never mind though eh, repeat the arguement that it's helping the BNP enough times and it might just come true. None of the branch sescretaries have told any members how "'orrible" the union is. They have on the other told members how inept, back stabbing, selfish and pusilanimous the unions leadership is and how much of a block on the union playing any serious independent political role the union Labour link is. Of course being the totalitarian that you are to slag off "our dear leaders" is the same as slagging off the union so i guess i'll never convince you on that score. And no the SPEW position on blue-labour/tories hasn't changed and our tasks remain the same. Our position will change when the situation does. I know you won't have the courage to answer my question John but could any other right-wing witchhunters give a good reason as to why it's acceptable for some to use the wise monkey's proverb and not others? or do all of you hide behind some silly made up code?.
Hi Paul I am sorry but you are incapable of expressing yourself in any coherent or understandable manner. You think life is all about fantasies, conspiracies, shouting and being very, very ANGRY (are you sure that you are not a close relative of Mike Law?).
So the Black members who were genuinely offended are all “idiots or Labour Party stooges”? Hmmm – words for once fail me.
Not for long mind. I really hope you are not a steward representing members. Let me try and make this clear. Fact - Acts of discrimination cannot be justified by the religious protection legislation but membership and holding office in the BNP would if this ET succeeds. You cannot then use the constitution of the BNP (soon to change anyway) neither could we (nor would we) take action against fundamental Christians who happen believe in the literal word of the Bible. Yep – no doubt the law of unintended actions but SPEW is doing the BNP’s dirty work.
Why are you continuing to attack and run down the union? What do you hope to achieve? What on earth is the game plan? This is all pointless? Is this building the union in any way or do you want to destroy it? This must be just sheer selfishness, spite and bile.
No wonder you lot have never got anywhere in politics and never ever will I’m afraid.
Keep on calling me all the names under the sun anon Paul it is very courageous of you – I don’t mind.
The simple truth is that I believe in the rules of our democratic union which (not perfect) defends ordinary members against employer’s day in day out - while you don’t.
I'm a retired member but I've never seen the 'see no, speak no, hear no evil' proverb used on our retired members material - maybe before my time. Where was it used and when? I'd be interested in looking it up.
Is Paul actually a UNISON member? I've read his comments and all I can see is he's in Greenwich but I don't think he's said he's a member. Unlike him I do think it has a bearing. For example, if he's a member of a competitor union or just a member of one of the fringe parties (or indeed a Tory for that matter), he could just be mischief-making for the ends of that union or his Central Committee.
34 comments:
I'm struggling to find the humour by comrade Mercader or whatever his name is.
What I do find amusing is the amount of Unison members who are currently resigning and joining Unite because they are fed up to the back teeth of Unisons bureaucratic nature and the amount of managers that are members who are always on the other side of the desk during disciplinaries.
Hahahahaha.
Im holding my belly Comrade M.
rubbish anon
members will leave in droves by the prospect of constant strikes, strikes and strikes by those who just want pointless political conflicit to further the "revolution".
Join unite because they are more militant...????
HaHaHaHa...you really are having a laugh...
This video is a shocking attempt to smear a Socialist Party member by using computer trickery to make him look ridiculous and make a mockery of his party.
Well done, and keep up the good work.
Didnt say Unite are more militant.
Didnt say they were leaving because of strikes.
They are leaving because "are fed up to the back teeth of Unisons bureaucratic nature and the amount of managers that are members who are always on the other side of the desk during disciplinaries."
I put the quote in for those who lack understanding.
You have your bitch about invisible 'Trots'. there are bigger problems to sort out than childish obsessions
Anonymous no1 must be in a completely differant unison than I am, we have increased our membership by over 100 members in the last month alone.
As for managers in unison you really need to do your homework seeing that there are just as manay managers in the GMB & Unite
So much for it being the *far* Left who are the most sectarian assholes. Get it together guys - all of you.
talking of assholes and who is this semple t**d?
Is that the best the right-wing can do? a stupid video attempting smear opponents. It's very noticable that while the 4 who are being witch-hunted have defended their records and refuted all charges made against them, the right-wingers can't come with a single justification for their actions.
Come on John (or should i say comrade mercader) tell us what you really think, justify the actions agianst the 4 activivsts or is it just a case of the right-wingers wanting those nasty trots out by hook or by crook?.
And no hiding behind that "internal union matter" rubbish this time. The people being chrged with so called offenses have been brave enough to publicly air their views on the matter and fight their corner. So stop being a coward and do the same. Put up or shut up.
Paul
How do you get your girlfiend on the back of bus
apply within
Hi Paul
So the video is not true? That is very naughty Comrade Mercader! Tut, tut – but he is such a card at times.
Anyway – I will not comment on the stuff that “the gang of 4” were found guilty of by an exhaustive process overseen by democratically elected lay UNISON activists since there is an appeal pending. I have my views but I don’t think it is right to comment on internal UNISON discipline matters. However, what I will criticise is what I honestly believe to be unforgivable and appalling public attacks on the union by some of the “4” and their so-called “supporters”. Many of which are not even UNISON members. How dare the President of another union speak at public meeting about internal UNISON issues (no personal capacity mentioned). No tiny sect of members has the right to try and besmirch the reputation of the union in the way that has been done because they happen to disagree with the way they have been treated. What on earth are they in the union for if they do not believe in putting loyalty to the union first and collective responsibility? The union is bigger and better than all of us. Dignified protest and reasoned argument is one thing. Name calling UNISON “witch hunters...playground... bullies... threatening...hypocrisy...Stalinists” and in letters to the press, leaflets, websites and videos involving non members is simply unforgiveable. In the same way that we expect members who may be opposed to strike action not to scab on the picket line, I would expect union members who think that discipline action against them (for whatever reason) is wrong - not attack to publically the union. Thankfully, due mostly to the crass madcap stupidity of the “campaign” it has not harmed the union that much.
But what on earth are they taking UNISON to court to try and declare themselves as “cultists” entilited to legal protection from so called “discrimination” and doing the BNP work for them? Who would be the biggest gainers from such insanity if you were successful? BNP/NF Fascists and racists who would immediately claim similar protection for their “philosophical views”.
I note that “the line” has now apparently changed and that the SPEW Ministry of Truth have now decided that all this is now not due to Labour Party pressure but down to union Stalinism?
Finally although I don’t know who you are I would suggest that you actually look and listen to the nonsense being put out about by some of the 4 and it is just cant and complete breathtaking hypocrisy of you to complain about this video when a main propagandist thinks he is perfectly entitled to accuse full time officers and other UNSION branch secretaries of dirty deals and selling out members etc as well as anyone who happens to disagree with him of being “cowards”, "smear"-ers and “traitors”.
Spot on, John.
So you can't comment on whether the charges made against the members or are true or not. No surprise their. Like i said by hook or by crook eh, we can't have them showing up what a crap record you right wingers have when it comes to defending members can we now.
But the crux of your arguement seems to be that when you have a greivance against an organisation you should never go public about it. Does that apply to workers who feel discrinated against by employers to?.
As for members of other unions defending the activists, well thats called class solidarity. The business of all working class organisations, specially one as important as UNISON, is the business of the class as a whole. Remember an injury to one is an injury to all.
And don't you think it cheapens the anti-racist cause just a wee bit when burearucrats use to carry out a political withchhunt which they know, you know and i know has absolutly nothing to with racism what so ever. If the unions leadership hadn't found some stooge, or idiot it must be one of the two, to stand up and say they found the 3 wise monkeys proverb racist then this case needn't have happened. So again the blame lays squarly at the feet on the unions (mis)leadership there.
As for the other trumped up charge of "questioning the integrity of the standing orders committee" well UNISON is supposed a democratic organisation, surely you can question the integrity of whatever body you like. If we apply these satndards to the world outside of the union then Labour party members obviously belive that in a democratic society you should never question the integrity of the government, whoever it is at any given time.
As far the stuff about the Labour Party/Stalinists goes your both just two sides of the coin. It's a bit rich you having a go at people about name calling i could trawl throught this blog and fing countless examples of you doing the same thing.
The story about the Branch Sec selling out members is just a fact, thats why her members felt they had to go to Kaz, he has a proven track record always fighting for his members. She, on the other hand, is useless.
We all know that the whole thing has come about because of fear. You're all scared because the arguements of the Socialist Party are gradually beginning to gain ground within the union. That means alot of overpayed and unelected people could soon be out of the job.
Paul
thicko trot alert john. I don't think it understands how to argue so it will be a cruel and unusual to respond!
Except i have answered the points John made in his reply, you obviously don't have leg to stand on. You've just done the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying lalalalala. Though thats all LP (im assuming you are one, you certainly argue like one) members are good fro nowadays.
Paul
what is Paul on or drinking?
Hi John
Just to let yo know. The Tories are getting stronger by the minute and yet it seems here more important to attack SP members.
Each to there own I suppose
I'm extremely concerned that Paul is alleging the Chair of the National Black Members Committee (who made the first complaint at conference)is a stooge or an idiot. If anyone thinks Bev Miller is a stooge or an idiot they'd better be prepared to say it to her face. But worse than that, to make such an allegation is not just an insult to the democratically-elected spokesperson of UNISON's black members but also to those members themselves.
Paul,
If it's a matter of class solidarity then what the f do the Heinz 157-varities of Trot-loon parties think they are contributing to class solidarity with their idiotic splits, infighting and separate parties?
Bev
Yasmin, sorry but if you claim that their was any racist intent behind the use of the 3 wise monkey's proverb the you're either doing it purely for politcal reasons, in which case your a Labour Party stooge. Or you could genuinely belive that the proverb is racist in which your an idiot. I just don't belive that anyone involved in making the allegations had never heard of the proverb before and actually thought the image depicted the chair of the SOC. Specialliy since it has been used in UNISON campaigning material with no action taken against those who included it. And no im not saying that the people who elected him are idiots, we all know thats just a straw man. Again if we take that arguement and apply to the life outside of the union then UNISON right-wingers have some pretty strange ideas about what is and isn't acceptable in a democracy. For example, I've heard plenty of people saying that George Bush is an idiot but i wouldn't use that to suggest they think that all the people that voted for him are idiots, take your arguement to it's logical conclusion you obviously would.
Paul
But the Socialist Party
have tod us for the last ten years that Tories are no worse than Labour
tell that to the public sector workers on a Tory wage freeze
Tell them that in Hammersmith, Barnet or Essex
Fools
Paul said
"Specialliy since it has been used in UNISON campaigning material with no action taken against those who included it.2
John can you respond to this?
so if their class war heros
how come they are all on full time release
paid for by the capitalist employer
even worse Labour run councils
its a disgrace
Hi Paul
You haven’t actually answered my point about why SPEW is doing the BNP dirty work over this employment tribunal case? There are more BNP members of trade unions than all the tiny Ultra sects put together so the real “winners” if this utterly misconceived application was to succeed would be the BNP et al who would claim legal protection due to their belief in National Socialism! Who on earth was the brains behind that one? Why doesn’t any of you lot respond and address this point?
Look - I don’t know about you but I was brought up to never repeat to never publically attack the union nor attack other unions. That is doing the work of the employers.
Paul, please note that a "trade u-n-i-o-n" is not the same thing as an employer. You appear not to know the difference between them.
Finally Paul one person’s fact is another person’s fiction. By all means express your views (except don’t attack the union) but don’t be hypocritical or holier than though about it.
I was brought up in a rough and tumble political tradition so I don’t mind being at the receiving end of a bit of verbal stick. But please - the hypocrisy of those who are happy to dish it out then have screaming fits when they get anything back is just childish and even moronic.
Why do you think that communicatie with such biblical and religious fundament certainty is valid? Don’t you think this is a sign? How on earth can you honestly think that us on the sensible left think of you lot as being any sort whatsoever of a threat?
Hi anon 7.48
Not sure about the getter stronger bit but you have to defend the union against such complete nonsense. It is also very soothing and relaxing after being out on the knocker canvassing for Labour and counting up all those promises for next year.
Good point Yasmin –
Shamefully “Paul” seems to think that black unison activists are just thick or too ignorant to have ever previously heard of the 3 monkeys.
I so wish that the appeal was over so I could express my views on this subject properly? (I will of course ask their permission beforehand)
No John the point i made was that i don't think that there's antone out therewho's never heard of the 3wise monkey's. I think your intentionally trying to distort what I said.
And i would say that the union is helping the BNP attacking the 4 activists on trumped up charges rather than fighting racism where it actually exists. Besides if the outcome of the case goes in favour of the Socialist Party members it won't set a precedent that protects BNP members as if they took the union to an ET they would have to prove that thier beliefs don't cause them to discriminate against others. Obviously we would all rather that they did not have have to resort to legal action but unfortunatly they'll get a better hearing in an ET than they would from the unions internal disciplinary structures. And unforunatly in this case the union is behaving like the worst employers do. The idea that it is the 4 victimised activists do that are doing the employers for tham by defending themselves is just ludicrous, I know here in Greenwich the council are rubbing there hands with glee at the thought of Kaz going and everyone leaving the branch. Kaz has already had to persuade many members not to leave the union over the whole affair.
Also you haven't told me why it's ok for the retired members section to use the proverb or for the UNISON national womens conference to saction it's use but not the left.
Finally you're not on the "sensible left" you're right-wing, you back a party with almost identical politics to the Tories. And if the SP isn't a threat then why are the union bothering to hound out activists belonging to it?.
Paul
"Finally Paul one person’s fact is another person’s fiction. By all means express your views (except don’t attack the union) but don’t be hypocritical or holier than though about it."
John, oh how I laughed and laughed when I read that.
The Trots lost
They need to get over it
If their not proud of our union or put it before their party loyalty they should be kicked out
UNION FIRST
SECTS LAST
Hi Paul
That is not what you actual said – you said that those making allegations had not heard of the 3 monkeys??? You don’t really “get it” about the consequences of the ET either do you? To win it they will have to prove that Trotskyism is a religious/philosophical cult and should be protected under the religious discrimination legislation (they would have to then “prove” they were actually discriminated). If trots are a philosophical cult then the Nazi and racists will also be claim the same protection. It would be impossible to expel Nazi from membership or even stop them being union stewards or officers. This ET is just complete and utter selfish ill thought out madness. If the branch secretary is going about telling his members how ‘orrible the union is then it is hardly surprising that some people are leave? Stop slagging off the union and stop digging this hole.
I’ve already told you I will not respond to the case since there is an appeal pending. But any experienced steward will know that know the differences and if you don’t then you ought to get out more and represent members.
With regards to the Labour Party and Tories check out my post last night on my old online muckers Andy and Sue. Anyway the SPEW line on this has changed? Hasn’t the CC told you what to think yet?
Hi Mike
Is Paul your son?
No John, I didnt claim that the people making the allegations had heard of the 3 wise monkeys and here's a quote cut and pasted from one of my entries with added emphasis just so that you understand: " I just DON'T BELIVE that anyone involved in making the allegations HAD NEVER HEARD OF THE PROVERB before and actually thought the image depicted the chair of the SOC". What I am saying though is that anyone who thinks that the proverb is racist is an idiot or an LP stooge.
And again your wrong about the ET, willfully so i suspect, as the law that the SP members are charging the union of breaking has a provision in it that allows employers to sack people for disciminatory practices in the work place. To beat the union in an ET the BNP would have to prove that they don't discriminate aginst minorities, homosexuals and women, which they wouldn't be able to do as the union could simply use the BNP's own constitution as evidence if any such case was to arise. Never mind though eh, repeat the arguement that it's helping the BNP enough times and it might just come true.
None of the branch sescretaries have told any members how "'orrible" the union is. They have on the other told members how inept, back stabbing, selfish and pusilanimous the unions leadership is and how much of a block on the union playing any serious independent political role the union Labour link is. Of course being the totalitarian that you are to slag off "our dear leaders" is the same as slagging off the union so i guess i'll never convince you on that score.
And no the SPEW position on blue-labour/tories hasn't changed and our tasks remain the same. Our position will change when the situation does.
I know you won't have the courage to answer my question John but could any other right-wing witchhunters give a good reason as to why it's acceptable for some to use the wise monkey's proverb and not others? or do all of you hide behind some silly made up code?.
Paul
I just love the comment "one person’s fact is another person’s fiction." NuLabour relitavism I guess.
And as for telling someone not to hypocritical and "holier than thou" ... you're a really funny guy.
Hi Paul
I am sorry but you are incapable of expressing yourself in any coherent or understandable manner. You think life is all about fantasies, conspiracies, shouting and being very, very ANGRY (are you sure that you are not a close relative of Mike Law?).
So the Black members who were genuinely offended are all “idiots or Labour Party stooges”? Hmmm – words for once fail me.
Not for long mind. I really hope you are not a steward representing members. Let me try and make this clear. Fact - Acts of discrimination cannot be justified by the religious protection legislation but membership and holding office in the BNP would if this ET succeeds. You cannot then use the constitution of the BNP (soon to change anyway) neither could we (nor would we) take action against fundamental Christians who happen believe in the literal word of the Bible. Yep – no doubt the law of unintended actions but SPEW is doing the BNP’s dirty work.
Why are you continuing to attack and run down the union? What do you hope to achieve? What on earth is the game plan? This is all pointless? Is this building the union in any way or do you want to destroy it? This must be just sheer selfishness, spite and bile.
No wonder you lot have never got anywhere in politics and never ever will I’m afraid.
Keep on calling me all the names under the sun anon Paul it is very courageous of you – I don’t mind.
The simple truth is that I believe in the rules of our democratic union which (not perfect) defends ordinary members against employer’s day in day out - while you don’t.
Hi Mike
Glad I've raised a chuckle.
I'm a retired member but I've never seen the 'see no, speak no, hear no evil' proverb used on our retired members material - maybe before my time. Where was it used and when? I'd be interested in looking it up.
Norman
Is Paul actually a UNISON member? I've read his comments and all I can see is he's in Greenwich but I don't think he's said he's a member. Unlike him I do think it has a bearing. For example, if he's a member of a competitor union or just a member of one of the fringe parties (or indeed a Tory for that matter), he could just be mischief-making for the ends of that union or his Central Committee.
union first
Those last few messages seem to have shut up Paul! Maybe he IS a Tory!
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